But anyways, if it's the manga, then this is pointless because Perfected SSB is clearly established beyond Goku Black's capabilities. The docters commenting on his progress said "If he keeps this up he'ss surpass King Vegeta." This feat just confirms that Vegeta and other DBH characters scale to multiversal levels in not just AP but also in DC. Bardock would have a huge power boost, and King Vegeta would be in shock over the outcome of their battle. But if we stick to just DBS Anime & Manga composite versions, than Team 1 should win. King Goku said: "Goku & Vegeta should win this.I don't think Darkseid is fast or durable enough to survive against these two at SSJ4." Black manhandling 2 SSBs easily, having official statements of being the strongest fighter at the time (which canonically puts him above SSBKKx10 Goku), superior durability to the Saiyans and having near infinite power growth would mean that he alone would pose a serious threat to the Saiyans if Ultra Instinct isn't involved. Potara Fusion was retconned by making it so that Mortal fusions do not last Forever btw, meaning there IS a time-limit for Vegito, just like Gogeta. But if they decide to fuse with the Dance, which is canonically the inferior fusion in terms of power, then Zamasu wins. I used to hold it as dozens of times stronger, now I believe its much, Much closer. King Vegetas strong too, I'm not saying that he isn't strong. Not just because he's a much cooler character, but because it's true. Darkseid for the win for me he could easily swat them away. At this point I've been considering making a new respect thread for Goku's speed feats, but respect threads are a pain in the ass and take a while, I just posted a DBZ broly one and took almost 2 hours to compile smh. This is shown against 4 of Dodoria’s elites, the assault when he headed to Frieza’s ship, and the blast that he conjured up to attack Frieza. Super Dragon Ball Heroes: Big Bang Mission!!! But I think he was brought back and saved by Fu or Hearts since we currently have Turles and Bojack who were saved by Fu and brought back and even Heart's is somehow back. Type: Tien[King Vegeta]-Strength Enhancement: Maximum health increase by 30,000-Fighting Spirit: Ki power rises as health decreases-Master Throw: Stronger throw atk / energy blasts lose power and produce less shots-Serious: Atk rises as health decreases-Combo Master: Combos and barrage attacks cause more damage-Unleash Ki: Small additional advantage in clashes-Mirage: Automatically dodge all remaining barrage type energy blasts after 1 rapid movement-A.I. When the Elder Kai made that statement, Goku was against a foe that was seemingly invincible at the time (Buutenks), and their trump card in form of Ultimate Gohan was licking the dirt at that point. Heck, even in the last episode, Base Vegeta showed that he would've blown the Universe Tree to bits if not for its absorption (correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a multi galaxy to multi universal sized structure). They are unknown of the existence of the other (Goku meets Vegeta eventually), one is a low-class fighter while the other is of royalty, and the Vegeta side was the first killed by Frieza while the Goku side put up a much more impressive assault. People state that King Vegeta didn't do nearly as much damage as Bardock caused during the rebelion against Lord Frieza, but it should be noted that King Vegeta didn't want to destroy Frieza's ship (since he thought the prince was onboard) so he held back some power. I think Bardock is stronger because he was able to acheive SSJ and King Vegeta couldnt. Agreed it's likely going to be bigger and probably allow Fu to control it or have something to make him stronger or something like that. @gelato_exotic: Agreed, some people don't really understand the strength of DBH characters and in a desperate attempt to downplay compare them to SSB Goku from DBS without knowing that this SSB Goku is magnitudes above his DBS counterpart. and all we know is bardock is almost at ten thousand. According to Z's guidebooks its fighter A times B, and for Zamasu it was actually stated his power expanded exponentially, and Vegito's counterparts were mostly relative to Zamasu's counterparts yet Vegito was hilariously superior to him, logically it was an even higher exponential boost for him. According to the episode of bardock special, with the Zenkai he got after healing from freiza's blast, he was probably close to or on par with king vegeta. Of course he is! They are like background stories to the real story like the future Trunks came from and the story of one of Goku’s parents. The fool saying that Bardock didn't get any Zenkai what so ever after Dondoria encountered.Please explain to me why Dondoria/Zarbon was shocked about how strong Bardock was when Bardock attacked Freiza army. Heres the thing though. SSBE and SSBX20 Goku would have no issue with an army of Blacks. Especially in a world where Fu's up against so many casual infinite multiverse busters lol after his head, wtf is one universe gonna do for him? And yeah ss Bardock is cannon. 98.225.251.65 23:58, January 18, 2013 (UTC), King Veggie could be 10x stronger than Bardock, but we'd have no way of proving it. King Vegeta and his son both had the same desires; taking over the universe, killing Frieza for supremacy, and becoming the #1 Saiyan in the universe (King Vegeta was fearful over Broly, and Vegeta was in shock of Goku’s strength). Pretty sure the rival boost was not retconned. Agreed Universal+ / multi universal is what I would put Goku at. And even though it hasn't been proven, I believe Bardock might have had enough power to kill Paragus. However, one blow that looked to be an uppercut killed him. I'm not sure about multiversal but DBS Goku as of now is at least universal+ in AP, but likely higher. SSJ3Vegetto (talk) 18:30, November 22, 2012 (UTC), I think Bardock wins because in the Bardock movie, it said Bardock was stronger. Agreed, universal+/multi universal is a much more plausible and logical rating for his AP atm. Goku and Vegeta stomp even if they fuse they've gotten hilariously stronger since Black arc, Infinite Zamasu could be a problem but considering the fact even Goku was somewhat confident he could make a difference against him with one senzu bean, Jiren being superior to IZ, Beerus and Whis likely being superior to IZ although no definite proof, Gogeta should be able to handle IZ. It's possible, but since he isn't in perfect condition makes me think it wasn't Fu or Hearts who brought him back and it was on his own. @noobsnowman: The Rival Factor is debatable and changes. However, Vegeta refers to him as just common soldier. I think it's multi universal sized tree since it's branches should stretch out to all 12 universes and not just U7, possibly larger if it stretches out to other dimensions like the afterlife, kaioshin realm, world of void, or even other timelines. Edit: Cumber also has similar type of clothing to Zamasu's eye patch and he also covers his mouth despite having a mouth that's not damaged, so I think it's just Zamasu's new look in heroes. If anything its just a feat for DBS Goku (and its not even DBS goku in the first place, its a completely different continuity and its blatantly shown, he remembers Turles and Bojack, and Future Trunks stayed with him after Zeno nuked his timeline rather than leaving to a different one), and not an anti feat for Xeno whatsoever. Are people just ignoring Infinite Zamasu? Don't get me wrong when he got beat up from dedoria on planet meat his power level sky rocketed, but not that far. Goku and Vegeta stomp, especially if they fuse into Gogeta. They also made reference to his strength being around 10,000. I wish they met, I dont really think that bardocks power level would have reached 20,000 when he fought frieza. It is hard to tell, but in an actual fight I would think that Bardock would win. Vegeta mentioned that he surpassed his father when he was still a child. DB has always been about AP since theres only 12 universes and we can't just have characters SSG level and above busting universes every time they fight, but sadly a lot people can't get this simple concept and think DB is barely planet level. So, its up in the Air in my opinion. The relationship between Bardock and King Vegeta reminds me of Goku and Vegeta. Let’s get real though he could have been healed from the damage from Dodoria’s and his elites. Bardock is stronger only with his elite if goku and bardock and his elite no one will die i mean frieza killed king vegeta with on punch to the jaw frieza used a death ball to sort of kill bardock but destroyed planet vegeta, Bardock is way stronger because he didnt die when frieza used a death ball on him and planet vegeta king vegeta died when frieza punched him in the jaw in my opinion king vegeta should be a low class saiyan warrior and bardock should have been a saiyan elite warrior so what if their power levels are different from each other bardock is way stronger, Bardock all the way. Unless you count the power of baby Broly, and he was born with the same level of power as Bardock when he was being treated by the doctors! try and watch the REAL version of dbz then say all that bullshit. Goku definitely has really good speed since he scales above Beerus casually travelling 3/4th of Whis' travel speed to that unknown planet and scales to other high end MFTL+ speed feats. Yeah, theres even more examples in the original Z especially. He shot one blast and it got eaten by Friezas own. For characters who arent Rivals, whatever measures that Metric, there is no boost. @gelato_exotic: Not really sure tbh, maybe Hearts saved him before he was erased or through some means similar to super dragon balls wishing back erased universes Heart's managed to bring back Zamasu? Zamasu could still regenerate against everyone he fought so I don't see why regenerating eye would be hard if he could survive erase destroying his soul and body along with the space he's in. When the Elder Kai says that the Fusion Dance is inferior to Potara, he could be referring to the fact that the Fusion Dance lasts 30 minutes, whereas the Potara is a truly infinite Fusion, but that doesnt apply to Mortals. They are unknown of the existence of the other (Goku meets Vegeta eventually), one is a low-class fighter while the other is of royalty, and the Vegeta side was the first killed by Frieza while the Goku side put up a much more impressive assault.

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